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	<title>Chat between Simon Zerner and Neilseph - Esoteric Chat</title>
	<link href="https://esoteric.chat/11259/chat-between-simon-zerner-and-neilseph/" rel="alternate"/>
	<subtitle>public secrets</subtitle>	<id>https://esoteric.chat/feed/conversation/11259/</id>
	<updated>2025-02-26T23:34:55Z</updated>
	<generator>esoBB</generator>
	<entry>
		<title>rbn</title>
		<link href="https://esoteric.chat/post/45384/" rel="alternate"/>
		<id>https://esoteric.chat/post/45384/</id>
		<updated>2024-10-25T16:35:04Z</updated>
		<author>
			<name>rbn</name>
		</author>
		<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>As you all may know, Neilseph Guard was in possession of a time machine before his untimely death.  Indeed, the machine was destroyed, but only recently, I have uncovered a transcript of a conversation which took place between Neilseph and Simon, the founder of esoTalk.</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;Simon, look here at what we have created, and now look at what has come of it.<br/>	If this machine were to become part of the academic repertoire, it would either<br/>	be used in order to reform societies from the backbone of their creation rather<br/>	than to study of the natural progression of time.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;But, Neilseph, the existence of a time machine does not require for us to<br/>	perceive events in a linear way.  No longer are we bound by the natural<br/>	progression of time, and if things must not be turned on their head because of<br/>	their natural state, then should we not destroy all that humanity has created?&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;You have yet to understand that the culmination of human history is part of the<br/>	natural progression of technology– well, not progression, but the manner in which<br/>	we obtain and leave behind knowledge as human beings.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;So then, Neil, how is the conception of this machine not a mere continuation of<br/>	the knowledge humans have obtained over time?&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;That is a very good point, Simon.  I will tell you this: this machine, created<br/>	solely by my own self, is not the product of natural progression, but a freak<br/>	accident which gave me the faculties to bring to life an abomination which must<br/>	not fall into the hands of other people, particularly my fellow shipmates who were<br/>	exposed to the same abuses as I was.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;In all truth, I believe you are ignoring the grand potential which this machine<br/>	has.  Why is it bad to reform societies in our own image?  Is this not also the<br/>	will of Mother Earth and the Clyde?&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;I see.  Well, this is because reforming the past in our own image would, in<br/>	turn, negatively affect the consequences which it would have on the present.  I<br/>	can forsee two possibilities: an entirely unexpected present condition that could<br/>	not possibly be accounted for without compensating for particle trajectories at<br/>	the most basic form, or an entire paradox which would compound time into its<br/>	horizon, thus leading to the death of the Universe as we know it.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;My Clyde!  I have most shamefully failed to factor in these consequences, for<br/>	you are most right, and we should not try to correct the past.  Alas, can the<br/>	machine not be entrusted to a select few people in order to curate the historical<br/>	narrative so that it may become the whole truth, and rid of inaccuracies in our<br/>	popular understanding of the past?&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;If the time machine were to be used in order to enlighten the masses about the<br/>	truth regarding human history, it would shatter their preconceptions to such an<br/>	extent that their grasp on reality as a whole would unfurl into the kind of sanity<br/>	which encompasses those who use your forum software for too long.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;I don&#39;t understand.&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;Let&#39;s just say that you probably have a lot of preconceptions about the<br/>	&quot;evolution&quot; of human society.  Hegel and the likes have spread the notion that<br/>	humans are culminating to something great; that a utopian society is part of the<br/>	coming horizon, when in actuality, society is tied to a pendulum that compensates<br/>	for its own self.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;From what you are telling me, an accurate transcription of events, or history,<br/>	would upset the current order of things, but perhaps it might bring to fruition and<br/>	further support the natural order instead.&quot;</p><p>NEILSEPH: &quot;The sad truth is that the current order <i>is</i> the natural order, but humans<br/> 	create for themselves various orders within the natural one.  Nature will always prevail<br/>	over the folly that is civilization, and you know that I know this to be true.&quot;</p><p>SIMON:  &quot;Well then, it seems you are right to dispose of this fantastic machine which you<br/>	have created, knowing your own fate.  I should hope that it cannot be pieced back<br/>	together by those with an intent in line with the potential disasters you have explained<br/>	to me.&quot;</p>]]></content>
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